Pod Squad: What’s On Your Mind?

So what is a Pod Squad? It’s kind of like a book club, but we talk topics that come up on the GAWG podcast as well as discuss other things top of mind, and potential future podcast topics. I just hosted the first in the series and it certainly did not disappoint. A dozen women from all over the US and Canada, from different backgrounds and who each have their own unique life experiences, all came together to exchange ideas, share opinions and provide insight — it was more than I could’ve ever imagined. And now I have a dozen new friends. Please note: some Pod Squad members prefer to remain anonymous so you won’t read their names here. 

By the way, future Pod Squad events will also feature some of the guests you meet here on the podcast. I would love for you to join us. In this Pod Squad, we talked about the great resignation, life after divorce, especially when married for a very, very long time. And, we began the discussion by chatting about my episode with Dr. Marilyn Simmons Bowe. 

Being With Yourself is Freedom

Dr. Simmons Bowe talked about social, emotional learning, and creating boundaries; spending time with ourselves. 

Jackie: It really got me thinking about how much time I actually spend alone. Some of it is because I have three teenagers and a husband and three dogs, but some of it is because I haven’t actually created that, right? The second I’m alone, I pick up my phone; I distract myself with Wordle or with Revel or Facebook. So, do any of you find yourselves taking the time to actually just be with yourself? Lisa Maria.

Lisa Maria: So, I have a Buddhist practice, and I spend about half an hour to 45 minutes every morning doing it and being with it. And, I’m a psychotherapist so I do my best to really have some of that reflection time just because I need it after holding space for others. I’m also my mom’s caregiver. So again, it’s another position where I’m being of service to someone. And, it’s really important for me when I can, even if it’s just five minutes, just settle in my body and breathe. So, that’s what I do regularly.

Jackie: So, are you able to sit by yourself and breathe for 30 to 45 minutes at a time?

Lisa Marie: Well, that’s way too much time, would never do that. My brain would automatically say no. Five minutes. Five minutes is just as beneficial. In fact, it’s more beneficial than trying to strive for 30 minutes. That’s ridiculous. And, that’s what I tell my clients, you know when we talk about meditation and mindfulness. Don’t bite off more than you can chew, 3 to 5 minutes is very beneficial every single day, as opposed to struggling through 20 or 30 minutes and never doing it again.

Jackie: That’s brilliant. I have a follow-up question though because that’s a lot to be a therapist, especially these days, and to also be a caregiver for a parent. How do you preserve your sanity, your energy, so that you save some for yourself? 

Lisa Maria: I have to really be conscious of scheduling it and then really following through with it because if I don’t, I’m a crazy-ass bitch and I’m not of service to anyone. And then, of course, Soki and Bravo TV are very, very helpful at the end of my day. 

Jackie: That’s quite an escape, right? I think this generation where many of us aren’t necessarily psychotherapists, but in that sandwich generation where maybe there are kids who are getting older, maybe there aren’t, but there are definitely parents who are getting older or other people to take care of. And, it’s a lot of stress at this time. So, thank you for sharing that. Does anyone else have a practice for spending time alone?

Pod Squad Member: I wake up 45 minutes in the morning before everyone else so I can have that time. And, I bicycle at home for 25 minutes and a nice shower without being interrupted by anyone. I have two teenagers too. So yeah, that’s my time. And, I put something like TV or something to watch any videos or whatever. That’s my quiet time. 

Jackie: Yeah. One of the things that Dr. Marilyn said in the episode last week, she was on stage one time. And, she is this woman who will sit by herself. She will read for hours. She’s totally comfortable. Her kids are grown. She’s totally comfortable being alone. She’s confident, she doesn’t need to impress anybody. She’s just, she’s so amazing. 

I mean, you really have to listen to the episode, but she was on stage one time and someone said to her, “Well, you seem full of yourself up there. You seem like, you know, you’re walking around in your five-inch heels and you’re talking to us like you have it all together.” First of all, the person waited in line to tell her this. 

So, you know that woman, but secondly, Dr. Marilyn actually said, “What you recognize in me is freedom. And because you don’t have freedom in yourself, you don’t recognize it in me.” And, I was like, ‘oh my God, this amazing.’ And so, I think we’re all working toward that idea of freedom, would you say, would anyone relate to that?

Ronnie: I totally agree with that word. It’s spiritual freedom. And, even though I don’t have a set routine every day that I deliberately set up, I do spend about two hours in the morning when I wake up just totally by myself reading. Or I find that the time by myself if I’m in a space and if my husband comes along, I’m like a snarly dog, ‘don’t come into my energies–’ because he doesn’t bring, at that moment, the same serenity that I’m experiencing. But I want to say something about freedom and liking yourself. I took a two-and-a-half-week road trip by myself up to the Olympic National Rainforest. 

And, I was dreaming about going up there for two years. I go and there’s all kind of calamities happening, but there were so many awesome moments that I would not have enjoyed if there was another energy plan, and it is spiritual freedom to be by yourself. And the serendipity comes, and you just know what to do. It’s all waiting for you. I’m off that path, by the way. I need to get back onto that. 

But I’ll never forget that because I learned I really like myself. I like me and I liked hearing my voice go, huh, when I saw something incredible; and that all the fantasies and visuals that I projected and I imagined and hoped for and ached for and yearned for, they came to me and they were waiting for me. So, I just think to have that spiritual freedom is just, it’s priceless and it’s not always easy to keep it.

Jackie: What would be the first thing for you to do, to get back to that freedom?

Ronnie: Eliminate some of the stressors or just remove myself from them or go and continue doing, getting into my car, getting into my gardening, not allowing myself to become a snarly dog if someone comes and intrudes. So, I am a certified hypnotist. I don’t say hypnotherapist because it has a different meaning that I am a therapist of some trained educational psychology. 

I never really dug that word hypnotherapist, even though that’s on the certificate. And, I found that it is extremely relaxing. I did have a small clinic when I lived in Scottsdale, Arizona and I lost it. I lost it in the mumble-jumble, getting married, moving, and I lost it. So, I am looking to regain that back. 

Jackie: Wow. Thank you for sharing that. We’re all cheering you on, but you were there once, right? I know for me, to go back to the ‘alone thing’, that if I tell myself, ‘oh, I’ll drive one hour to the beach and I’ll spend two hours just walking on the beach or maybe writing in a journal or something like that.’  And then, I start to tell myself these bogus stories of, ‘oh, what if the boys need me? What if this happens?’ Or ‘I can’t possibly take that from work,’ and it’s all wrong. And so, I remind myself, ‘Hey, I’ve done it before, I could do it again.’ And, it’s the same with what you’ve built in your life. You had that adventure, you had that trip where you went by yourself, you had a practice. So, if you’ve done it before, you can do it again.

Ronnie: I’m in a new place. I’ve only moved here six months. It is a different feel than any of the other provinces in Canada. And, it’s a different field, definitely from the United States. And, they have bodies of water everywhere. This will be the place I feel that I’ll be able to regain that back.

Jackie: Anybody else have anything to add, Veronica?

Veronica: Yes, I have the opposite problem. I’m single. I don’t have any kids. And, I live by myself. So, I’m always alone. I’m not working right now, I’m disabled. When I used to work, I worked for a nonprofit and I used to be with people all the time, like serving people, organizing people. So, when I got home, my alone time was like, I really needed it. It was like, so perfect. So, my home was my temple. I was like, this is what I need. 

And, I used to travel a lot through my 20s, 30s, 40s, and I really enjoy traveling a lot. When I was with my boyfriend, through all the years I was with my boyfriend, I traveled with him, but when I was single, before him and after him, I really enjoyed traveling by myself. I backpacked through South America, and Europe. I loved traveling by myself. But then in my late 40s– I’m going to be 51 in May. In my late 40s, I stopped enjoying traveling by myself. I felt like I needed a partner to enjoy the places and talk to. So, I’m not enjoying things as much. And because I’m always alone and with the pandemic, it’s been terrible being in my house all by myself. So, the experience of being all the time by myself is not really healthy for me. 

Jackie: Have you had the opportunity to meet anyone from Revel in person? Have you tried any of their in-person events?

Veronica: No. No, I haven’t. I just contacted somebody yesterday. We agreed on meeting for coffee or a movie, who lives close by.

Jackie: Yeah. Alone time, if we all want it, it’s good for us. And then, there’s a period of time where we need that interaction. And so, I hear you and I feel that. Another thing about Revel is that if there’s something you’ve wanted to try yourself to put an event, even if you only ask for three other people, right? Because not all of us want to go out and do these group things. 

Sometimes it’s nice to have one-on-one, maybe just fewer than five, but let’s say you wanted to go kayaking in the ocean or painting or something, you could actually create an event on Revel and then let people in your area know on the app. It’s such a great– I sound like I’m a Revel salesperson. 

I promise I’m not! I have a great group of girlfriends, but I notice if I want to try something new and different and they’re not into it, sometimes we tend to just not do it. And, to have an opportunity to say, “I’d like to try this activity. I wonder if other women would.” They may not be your best friends at the end of it. Bobby, did you have something to add?

Bobby: I understand. I have a lot of friends who feel that they’re alone. They’re divorced, and now they’re alone. I actually met a couple of new people. It was through Stitch, but I didn’t know them, and now we’re all really good friends. So, I really do encourage you to use these programs to help you meet other people. Like you said, you may not find a best friend, but you might. One of my friends lives in Rhode Island, but we’ll meet in the middle or I’ll sleep over. So, you should try that. And, I was thinking that I don’t have a regular schedule where I’ll be alone, but I do what I do like to do: go walking with my music, and I’ll sing and I’ll dance in the street. And, I don’t care, who’s looking. 

You said you have freedom, that’s my freedom; I boogie. If I can embarrass my son, even better because I just enjoy that. I wish I could sit, but I’m not the type. I can’t sit there for five minutes. I know it’s helped a lot of people, and I wish I could get more spiritual like that. But for now, I’ll just dance in the supermarket and yeah. 

Jackie: But that’s another form of meditation, right? Is it meditation, really, like being in the moment, breathing and rhythm and moving– Rhythm sometimes is just breath. Sometimes it’s walking. Sometimes it could be dancing. I know it’s not traditional meditation, but if that’s your way of getting into your body–

Bobby: I guess it’s my moment, you know?

Jackie: Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome.

Bobby: Even like when you’re driving, you’ll be singing and people looking at you and you’re just singing, because who cares? It’s your car.

Jackie: It must be a Massachusetts woman thing! So, somebody asked and I’m curious too, what is Stitch?

Bobby: Oh, it’s another online like Revel. They have a lot of virtual stuff now, obviously, because of COVID but you can join different groups. It’s almost the same thing, except it’s a mixture. This is all women. So, you have your choice, like I’m on there for friendship, but if you wanted something more, you can also do that. 

I find that so far there aren’t that many things meeting in person because of COVID. The person who started is in Australia. They seem to be doing a lot of things in Australia. That’d be a nice place to be right now, but still, there are a lot of online things if you want to check that out.

Making New Friends 

Jackie: So, as far as friendships go, over 40, how many of you are just like chugging along with the same friendships that you’ve had for years versus making new friends, and are you even open to making new friends? Becky. 

Becky: I actually have been making a lot of friends over COVID. A lot of people are moving to my neighborhood because I live in Stanford, Connecticut, and people are fleeing New York City. So, they’re coming here to Stanford. So, I made a lot of new friends among those new arrivals.

Jackie: How do you meet them?

Becky: Through my synagogue.

Jackie: Okay. Shared experience.

Becky: Exactly. I like to wake up and go walking in the morning at 5:00, and I would love to have company, but nobody’s up. Or late at night, I would like to go out and nobody’s up. So, I’m trying to make new friends who are interested in spending time in those early mornings and late night times.

Jackie: I have to ask the question that somebody else must be also thinking, like, when do you sleep? 

Becky: Yeah, that’s the problem. I really need to sleep more. I sleep like three to five hours a night. 

Jackie: Whoa! Do you feel like you can function in the world?

Becky: It’s really bad. I really need to do something about it, honestly.

Jackie: Sleep is such an interesting thing after a certain age, right? Like, I used to fall asleep; I mean, I still can fall asleep pretty quickly, and I would stay asleep all night. I was cocky. I was like, ‘I am the best sleeper there is. I can sleep anywhere.’ And, that is no longer the case, so I struggle. Does anyone else feel that?

Helen: Yeah, I do. I do feel that. And, to answer your question around friendships, I do feel like, coming out of the pandemic, there is more of a willingness from many people to be much more open about having new friends and devoting more time to friendships. From my experience, I think we saw many professional women taking a step back. Many of them were, you know, looking for other opportunities or just taking some time for themselves. 

And, I see that in my group of maybe not friends, but acquaintances, and in talking with some of them, it is clear that many of them are looking to build on that personal, emotional, and spiritual side, more so than before the pandemic. And, that all the fixation on professional achievements is maybe not something that people are fixated so much on these days. It’s more about making those connections with, you know, people in your community. 

I got to know my neighbors during the pandemic because we’re all home much more. And, I think there is just more of a willingness to ask to see if we’re all doing well and to engage in a deeper conversation than just, ‘Hey, have a good night,’ or, you know, whatever it is that we used to do before the pandemic. So, I do see, in general, much more openness to deeper friendships and more friendships.

The Great Resignation

Jackie: Yeah. Well, in everything negative, there are positives in there. So, have you found that yourself, Helen, that the way you look at the “hustle” or achieving or your work, has that changed for you personally?

Helen: It has, for sure. I think I was one of the first waves of people who resigned during the course of the pandemic. And for me, I’m in business consulting, for a long time, I was doing the thing and finding some fulfillment from that whole process. But I had some time to, you know, really think and assessed what really would be fulfilling for me at this point in my life. And, it was not to work these crazy hours. It was not to make sure my company gets more revenue. 

I mean, those things are important when you are in a job, those are no longer the things that drive me. I think it’s more important for me to feel like I am having a positive impact on the people around me, in my profession, of course, on my team, and in my community. I think those are the things that would be much more fulfilling for me at this point, rather than just climbing the ladder to have that sense of achievement. 

So, that’s no longer the top three drivers in my life. And, I am seeing that is a discussion that many of my friends are also having. And, some of them have made the determination that they too are ready to get off the ladder and to really think about what would be fulfilling at this point in their life. 

Jackie: Right. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think that’s so common. I used to pride myself in being “a hustler”, and now I’m all about being aligned. I still love to work hard or at least be passionate about my work, but things that actually matter to me versus just being busy for the sake of being busy. 

I think at some point, it was a badge of honor to be busy. Remember the times when you’d walk into a party or the water cooler and you’re like, ‘Oh, I’m so busy this weekend.’ ‘I was busier.’ And, it was like this competition. 

Helen: I used to have friends who would show me their calendars as a badge of, you know, pride and honor if they had eight hours of meetings, and that was their big day.  And, I think that is less common maybe these days and people are just more interested in showing you that they were able to take a 10-mile hike rather than being in front of their laptop 24/7.

Jackie: Right. And, now we’re seeing pictures of their food and their views from their hikes. 

Lisa Maria: That’s one of the blessings from the pandemic. Really, if you were to look at the pearls from this experience, that is one that we all were forced to reflect on and reinvent the wheel of our lives. And, then when the gates opened, we have the choice of how we want to navigate it now as opposed to then. 

Helen: That’s right. 

Jackie: An older version of ourselves, right?

Helen: Yeah. I heard a really good analogy that sometimes you have to fall off the bicycle to recognize that you may need to just be walking.  

Jackie: Maybe roller skates are more for you. Awesome. So, we have another hand up. 

Life After Divorce

Carol: Hi. This is Carol. 

Jackie: Hi Carol.

Carol: I guess I’m going back a little bit. You said, being open to making new friends and then also big things happening in your life. I’m at the end of my career, pretty much. I’ve been in the caregiving career, my entire life. It feels like my entire life, I’ve done a lot of caregiving, both professionally and in my family, and suffered an injury and was down for about a year and a half, although I could work from home, thanks to the pandemic. 

And, I have been working from home for about two years now, but after a 35-year marriage, I’m divorced. My husband decided he couldn’t do marriage anymore. No explanation, no anything. And, I have been a typical overachiever: I’ve raised my family while going to school while working full time. And, I’ve let a lot of friendships go by the wayside because of that busyness. 

It’s been interesting. He’s been gone almost a year now with the divorce being final in January, and what friends I had that really stepped up to be there for me. And, I’m trying to reconnect with old friends and invest that time in the friendship as well as making new friends. I’m nearing retirement and, I was discussing retirement with my husband before, planning our retirement together, and then he walks out without warning. I’ve always been an independent person. I’ve always had my own interests. I’ve always been a professional person, but I have not invested the time and the friendships because of that busyness. So, I’m trying to reinvest, reconnect, and make new friendships at the same time.

Jackie: Wow! And, you’re living proof that it’s never too late to make those friendships to try new things. I just, my heart goes out to you. I think we all had this sense of control, perhaps. I had a sense of control before all of the things happened. So, I can imagine after 35 years of marriage, I would assume that you thought like you knew where you were going.

Carol: Yes. And, he used to make the joke, “it’s 30 years to life. I guess I’m on the life part now. Ha ha ha!” You know, there is a sense that, this is it. You have your goals, you know where you’re at, and totally the cart was upended and flipped over.

Jackie: Wow! I give you so much credit, and maybe it’s too soon to ask this so you can tell me to go take a hike. What would you tell someone who might be at the beginning of what you just have gone through in the past year?

Carol: Well, I’m in the medical field myself, and I’ve seen so many things. Life doesn’t happen as we expect. And ultimately, no matter who’s in our life with us, for what period of time, we ultimately all have to stand on our own. And, life does not end because of one circumstance or what one person has done, made a choice, albeit a very important person in my life, but I’m still me. I still have life to live, and I better be about it.

Jackie: I mean that’s one year later, and I just– I see people 20 years after a pain like that, who still can’t get themselves out of that rut. There are people all over the world who something happens, and then they stay in that thing. And so, you’re inspiring.

Carol: I’m not going to be anybody’s victim. He made a very hurtful choice for still unknown reasons, but that was your choice, you’re right to make it. And, I still have to live my life, and I’m not going to be a victim of this circumstance. I mean, he could have stepped out in front of a bus and been killed. I still had a life to live. But yes, I see people define themselves by something. I’ve talked to a woman thinking she had just got divorced and my God, 18 years later, it was like, it happened yesterday. She’s never moved past it. Yes, you have to grieve it. Yes, there’s ups and downs, but I’m responsible for my own life.

Jackie: I’m sure just by sharing your own story, that there are other women here and everywhere that are touched by you and see that there’s life after traumatic events. So, that’s traumatic. Thank you so much for sharing. Does anyone have anything to add to anything we’ve talked about so far? 

Bobby: Carol, I just think you’re amazing and you’re very strong; and like, it’s only been a year and that you’re right: a lot of people stay stuck for years and years, and you’re great. I just, I really– Wow! It’s very nice to meet you. I have a lot of friends who are in the same predicament. I’ve traveled a lot alone because if they don’t want to go with me, fine, I’ll do it alone. But, of course, it’s more fun when you have somebody else there with you. You know, it can be. I mean, things are fun alone, like dancing in the street, but some things you do want to have a friend along with you, but I think all you ladies are very cool. And, I just thank you for sharing all your stories and thank you for bringing us together.

Resilience

Jackie: You’re welcome. You’re welcome. This is amazing. I just think of the word ‘resilience’, and we don’t know what we’re capable of. What is that quote? A woman doesn’t know, what is it like, how strong she is until she’s put in hot water and she’s like a teabag. I’m just making the shit up. 

You know, when you meet a woman and she’s just like, you Carol embodied that resilient spirit and all of you women do, we can’t be resilient and we can’t get to that next place without the difficulties. And so, I think at this stage of our lives, when things come, we know, ‘I’ve survived everything else that’s come at me’, that, I can survive this. I think we start to just with experience and time, know how resilient we are. Does anyone want to share?

Lisa Maria: I feel that that is true. My experience when speaking with people who are in their 20s and 30s, really struggling to find themselves. And, it’s not really a cool thing to say, ‘you’re still really young, you still have quite a long-life trajectory, everything will be okay,’ because that’s minimizing their experience. 

But I really feel like, in this time, in my 60s, that yeah, I have incorporated so much wisdom, and I have been on the other side of so many wonderfully challenging experiences that I have built up my resiliency, but it doesn’t automatically come. It has to come through experiencing life. So, it’s like an egg-chicken thing. But it is true. 

And, it’s a funny thing to share that with others because everybody runs from challenge. No one wants to go through the fire. They all want to go around it, but I’m like, ‘no, go through. You’ll be so much better for it.’ And, they’re like, ‘no, run.’ So, that would be like a totally other topic of conversation.

Jackie: And, how do you not say to people in their 20s and 30s, I feel like I’m going to have that ‘pretend cigarette’, like, ‘just you wait, [laughs] you know, it’ll be all right, just you wait,’ because everything feels so catastrophic that when you’re younger because you haven’t had enough of those catastrophes to show you that you’re going to be okay.

Lisa Maria: But I think you can build on those conversations when just asking that question of, ‘tell me when you have had a challenging moment,’ because as soon as they see the evidence, then they recognize that they do have that capability of being resilient. And then, you can say, ‘yeah, see.’ And sometimes, we forget and someone needs to remind us, ‘you were really going through the shit last year. Do you remember?’ And, I’m like, ‘no, tell me.’ So, that’s a really good friend when they can recap your challenges and you can go, ‘oh yeah.’ 

Jackie: Right. Thank you. Becky, I think you raised your hand.

Becky: I wanted to show you guys something that my friend sent me. It has language though.

Jackie: That’s all right. We’re salty here. We’re okay.

Becky: It says, “Be so fucking proud of yourself for all the darkness you went through and despite it all, you still choose to heal and shine and kick some fucking ass.” 

Jackie: Yes. Thank you for sharing that. That’s up my alley! I think the reason I even do this work and host the podcast, and not even ‘I think’, it’s fully because of the things I’ve gone through. That’s why I became so passionate in talking with other women. So, I was just saying to somebody, I was a guest on a podcast this week. And, I was saying that everything I’ve done over 40 was inspired by what I went through before I was three. 

When I was three, my mom died of breast cancer. Come to find out, I had the same BRCA gene. I don’t know if you’re all familiar. She had 11 kids. I was the youngest and she died of breast cancer. Like I said, I was three, the oldest was 18. 

My dad got remarried to a former nun, and so I was raised by her, and then she had two more kids. And, I have experience with children with autism and gender identity, and chronic illness. And, I had a dad with Alzheimer’s, and there’s just so many things that have come into my life, and each and every time it’s, ‘oh, another thing, another.’ And, then when you’re in it, now when another– [laughs] Yeah, like, I won the lottery here, but now I have enough things that have happened that I go, ‘okay, I know I’m going to be okay, what do I need to do?’ And sometimes, what I need to do, which 40-year-old me would be laughing at me, but sometimes what I need to do is nothing. 

Sometimes what I need to do is take a break and go do something fun for myself and not have to fix, fix, fix, and achieve. But if you told me that 10 years ago, at 40/41, I would’ve never believed you. Do any of you find that, that you used to be like running to the problem– And sometimes, the problem resolves itself if you actually stopped trying to beat your head against a wall, imagine that! Does anyone else feel that? 

Ronnie: I decided that I’m just going to do silly, fun things. I don’t care. And so, I remember when I lived in Scottsdale, Arizona, there was a group of women that had red hats on, and there were giggly and loud and goofy. And, I thought, ‘look at these older women like being loud and goofy.’ So, before I left, I went over and asked. She goes, ‘oh, we belong to the Red Hat Society.’ I never forgot it. ‘We just have fun and be silly.’ By the way, the least favorite color in my entire life is red. So, what do I do? I joined the Red Hat Society, and I ended up getting a hat and just playing. 

And, they gave me some jewelry, and then I’m just trying to join every meeting, every group, and just keep whatever is supposed to come into my life open instead of assessing. I’m kind of a believer from my past that when things are ready for you, it’s almost like effortless. I’m going to just relish in this. And, I joined some women’s business groups. I joined the garden group. I just joined a bunch of groups.

Jackie: Yeah. That’s amazing. It sounds like you’re putting yourself out there. Number one, you’re having the courage to put yourself out there and yet you’re not trying to force things to happen, right? If that’s a final parting message of having the courage to put yourself out there and then not being attached to the expectations of what’s going to happen when you’re out there

Ronnie: I couldn’t have said it better.

Jackie: Because that’s when the magic happens, right, when you allow things to unfold, you said it, it can be effortless. Not everything has to be such a struggle. And so, if you put yourself in the place where you want to be, and then you allow what’s going to happen, it’s like a nice combo. So, thank you for sharing that Ronnie. We are out of time. You are all so amazing. I’m so excited to have met you. So, thank you all for coming. I really appreciate it. 

Thank you so much to the ladies who joined me for the very first Grown-Ass Woman’s Guide Pod Squad event. Join me on Revel for the next one. It’s totally free and so much fun. Visit hellorevel.com and click Join. Be sure to choose Grown-Ass Woman’s Guide when asked how you heard about Revel. Once you’re on Revel, message me there and scroll the hundreds of events offered. It’s really a cool experience. 

If you’ve enjoyed this episode or any episode of The Grown-Ass Woman’s Guide, please share it with a friend. Thank you.

Until next time, remember you are a grown-ass woman, act accordingly.